Market Research

[sima66]

I don't really get why anyone wants to see what samplerate file they are playing - will it change the sound?

Actually it does change the sound!
I had Audio Aero CDP and sounded better with the display OFF. Same thing is with my current 922/931 Wadia DAC, less harshness with the display OFF.
The simpler - the better!

[jkeny]

I don't really get why anyone wants to see what samplerate file they are playing - will it change the sound?

Actually it does change the sound!
I had Audio Aero CDP and sounded better with the display OFF. Same thing is with my current 922/931 Wadia DAC, less harshness with the display OFF.
The simpler - the better!

Indeed, I remember a similar experience with some CDP/ DACs I had where having the display turned on seemed to pollute the PS & cause subtle audible issues at the output. Thanks for pointing this out & reminding me.

I had a similar experience earlier today where changing the output wiring of the Ciunas from copper to silver in teflon (at a customer request) changed the sound, taking some sharp edges off it & bringing a bit more resolution to it - inner detail. I'm a bit of a sceptic about metallurgy making any difference to the sound but maybe it was the silver or maybe the teflon dielectric but it changed the sound. And it was only a small amount of silver wire - from the pcb's out to the RCA connectors. I heard a difference & so I went further & changed all the power & ground wiring to silver which brought another slight improvement in inner detail.

Point being, for those interested in the best sound, maybe forgoing some functionality/facilities might be of benefit? I'm of the opinion that the more functions, the more care & effort has to be expended in keeping each function self-contained & stopping it from interfering with the core function of best sound.

[sima66]

I don't really get why anyone wants to see what samplerate file they are playing - will it change the sound?

Actually it does change the sound!
I had Audio Aero CDP and sounded better with the display OFF. Same thing is with my current 922/931 Wadia DAC, less harshness with the display OFF.
The simpler - the better!

Indeed, I remember a similar experience with some CDP/ DACs I had where having the display turned on seemed to pollute the PS & cause subtle audible issues at the output. Thanks for pointing this out & reminding me.

I had a similar experience earlier today where changing the output wiring of the Ciunas from copper to silver in teflon (at a customer request) changed the sound, taking some sharp edges off it & bringing a bit more resolution to it - inner detail. I'm a bit of a sceptic about metallurgy making any difference to the sound but maybe it was the silver or maybe the teflon dielectric but it changed the sound. And it was only a small amount of silver wire - from the pcb's out to the RCA connectors. I heard a difference & so I went further & changed all the power & ground wiring to silver which brought another slight improvement in inner detail.

If interconnects, speaker cables, power cords make a big difference, why would not internal wiring make the same/similar difference?!
Wires and connections (or connectors) are one of the things that should not be taking for granted. Again, to many connections should be avoided if possible (I already mentioned that couple posts ago :))).
John, I strongly suggest you to experiment with the dumping and mechanical vibrations. Not like the brass on CPU, but just try to isolate and drain the internal vibrations from the most sensitive parts!

Point being, for those interested in the best sound, maybe forgoing some functionality/facilities might be of benefit? I'm of the opinion that the more functions, the more care & effort has to be expended in keeping each function self-contained & stopping it from interfering with the core function of best sound.

One example it's again the Wadia what has the 6 digital inputs that can be turned OFF in the settings (just chose the one you use) and again lift the SQ!

[sbgk]

one of the most obvious features is to allow interconnects to be soldered to devices, few manufacturers allow for this though.

[nige2000]

I don't really get why anyone wants to see what samplerate file they are playing - will it change the sound?

Actually it does change the sound!
I had Audio Aero CDP and sounded better with the display OFF. Same thing is with my current 922/931 Wadia DAC, less harshness with the display OFF.
The simpler - the better!

Indeed, I remember a similar experience with some CDP/ DACs I had where having the display turned on seemed to pollute the PS & cause subtle audible issues at the output. Thanks for pointing this out & reminding me.

I had a similar experience earlier today where changing the output wiring of the Ciunas from copper to silver in teflon (at a customer request) changed the sound, taking some sharp edges off it & bringing a bit more resolution to it - inner detail. I'm a bit of a sceptic about metallurgy making any difference to the sound but maybe it was the silver or maybe the teflon dielectric but it changed the sound. And it was only a small amount of silver wire - from the pcb's out to the RCA connectors. I heard a difference & so I went further & changed all the power & ground wiring to silver which brought another slight improvement in inner detail.

Point being, for those interested in the best sound, maybe forgoing some functionality/facilities might be of benefit? I'm of the opinion that the more functions, the more care & effort has to be expended in keeping each function self-contained & stopping it from interfering with the core function of best sound.

I'm a fan of single core silver in teflon it's what I've used in my usb and interconnect cables and the signal wire of my amps
And silver plated copper in teflon for power wires in the pc

Silver wire increases detail clarity and cleans up the bass
But if you have a harsh system it might not do it any favours

So silver for all signal wire works well for me

[jkeny]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I find the difficult part of audio product design is the mechanical aspects, presentation, interface, etc. It doesn't come naturally to me & takes a long time to work out. I don't think I'm alone in this. I know I'm not going to excel in this area or compete with the big boys & my efforts will always be sub-par when compared to other professionally designed products. So spending lots of time on this aspect is like peeing in the wind. We all only want to compete in areas where we feel we have a chance of winning. Getting good sound, on the other hand, I find an easier target to achieve & I believe I can compete more successfully in this arena.

I believe in our purchases we are on a spectrum where, as the price gets higher our expectations of sound quality & presentation similarly increase. So I'm looking for the range on this spectrum where sound quality/price ratio tips the balance Vs the other factors?

Some people will probably only operate in the higher end of this spectrum, purchasing top notch products at top notch prices. But I believe there are enough floating purchasers that can be persuaded, once the SQ/price ratio is right.

What do you guys think?

[sima66]

Thanks for all the input guys.

I find the difficult part of audio product design is the mechanical aspects, presentation, interface, etc. It doesn't come naturally to me & takes a long time to work out. I don't think I'm alone in this. I know I'm not going to excel in this area or compete with the big boys & my efforts will always be sub-par when compared to other professionally designed products. So spending lots of time on this aspect is like peeing in the wind. We all only want to compete in areas where we feel we have a chance of winning. Getting good sound, on the other hand, I find an easier target to achieve & I believe I can compete more successfully in this arena.

I believe in our purchases we are on a spectrum where, as the price gets higher our expectations of sound quality & presentation similarly increase. So I'm looking for the range on this spectrum where sound quality/price ratio tips the balance Vs the other factors?

Some people will probably only operate in the higher end of this spectrum, purchasing top notch products at top notch prices. But I believe there are enough floating purchasers that can be persuaded, once the SQ/price ratio is right.

What do you guys think?

Aluminium box with on/off switch/light and logo, nothing fancy, but also not ugly.......no Christmas lights and just make sure that it sounds good! :)))
Most of them are just a simple box anyway!

[jkeny]

Aluminium box with on/off switch/light and logo, nothing fancy, but also not ugly.......no Christmas lights and just make sure that it sounds good! :)))

I'm trying for better than "sounds good" :))

Most of them are just a simple box anyway!

Apart from the sophisticated ones in the top tier of design, I agree - they are all variations on a simple box
You seem to be a good example of the kind of market segment I'm aiming at - maybe, in time, I'll be able to divert you from the Sonicweld + Wadia?

[sima66]

You seem to be a good example of the kind of market segment I'm aiming at - maybe, in time, I'll be able to divert you from the Sonicweld + Wadia?

Sooner or latter everything becomes obsolete........even ourself :( ........ so why not Wadia & Sonicweld!
There will always be something newer and better (I hope that you will better them).

The problem (or benefit) with Wadia is that it sounds the best connected strait to the amps, so no preamp needed and since the PC is my only source, that's perfect for me.
Most (if not all) of other Hi-end DAC's, they all benefit from the GOOD preamp, but, in my case, I can't even compare the sound of the other DAC's without the preamp!
Probably it will be a while before I will take such a "big steps"!

Then, again, "never say never", never know when the little bug/devil gets into my head and start to push for changes!