Graaf Jadis Kharma Deliciousness

[DaveF]

Popped down to Simon's gaff last night to finally get a listen to his system. It was of particular interest to me as it would be the first time I've heard Kharma 3.2fe speakers since I got rid of my thin lean ear splitters a few years ago. I've always been convinced that there was something wrong with mine even on the end of a variety of amps, yet 3 other forum members also had the same speakers and never had the same issues I had.
Given Simon's well documented problems with his listening room plus my previous nightmare with Kharmas I was kinda expecting an bit of a jekyll and hyde show if I'm being honest.

First up was Handel's Organ Concerto's Op.4. I held my breath in anticipation of the first few notes wondering would I be bolting for the door. :-) I have to say though within the first 10-20secs, it immediately brought me back to the day when I first heard Ciaran's Kharmas. I was very impressed with the tone, balance and in particular how much weight was behind the sound. Instrument separation was really top class. The leading edge attack and detail of the Kharma/Graaf combo makes my Quad/Jadis feel very muddied and veiled in comparison. Yet there was oceans of musicality there, that really good valve amps deliver in spades.

Time to raise the bar then.......

Next up was my dreaded Italian Oboe Concertos Vol 2, Track 4. Lots of strings and wind instruments in this one, a lot going on at once. This has challenged most systems I've had to date with the exception of the Usher/Gamut combo. To my surprise the Kharma/Graafs kept everything in check. This recording does indeed sail close to the wind at times and occassionally the wind instruments do indeed sear but this was always the nature of this recording.

No hifi meetup these days is complete without some Shelby Lynne. The opening track of course. Again very impressed, probably the best I've heard this track sound.

Tony soon arrived with his Jadis JA30. I've had some reservations about my Jadis JA88s so I was really interested in hearing this one. We tried a variety of recordings from vocals, jazz, orchestral, chamber and swapped in and out the Graafs a few times for comparison. Definitely a different presentation from the two amps. The Jadis had a fuller more solid sound which suited the large orchestral works a bit better and gave a bigger sense of scale and weight but when it came to the smaller arrangments, the instrument separation and leading edge attach of the Graafs came into their own. In this case the Jadis had a more smeared presentation but I dont mean that in a negative way, just relative to the Graafs it had.
A very interesting comparison indeed and really intriguing hearing the strengths of both amps and what they brought to the table. A marriage of the two amps would indeed be heaven but isnt that always the way with a lot of hifi.

Before I left, the Quad 57s were hooked up. 57's/Jadis: should be a perfect match. I'll admit I was slightly underwhelmed at first. The presentation was much darker, not as much sparkle and attack as the Kharmas and the low positioning on the floor took some adjusting to also. But as the minutes passed by and I adjusted, it just sounded lovely to listen to. Not offensive in the slightlest and although I noted the percieved lack of impact compared to the Kharmas, the Quads just kept going and doing its thing without a fuss. Classic Quad ESLs eh?





It brings me to question what's lacking in my system. No doubt the Quad 989's need a service but I've also wondered about the 'dullness' of my Jadis DA88s. The 989's and Devialet did sound sublime when I had that combo for two evenings before I went for the Jadis. I plan *somehow* to get my Jadis down to Tony's place so he can do a comparison with his DA50 for a few days. That will put the issue to bed one way or another.

Anyway, many thanks to Simon for the evening. Really wish I could have stayed longer but I had a long trip back up to Malahide to make and we probably kept his family awake long enough. Thanks to Tony too for the lift to the Dart station.

[DaveF]

Forgot one important point in that the drivers that were in my Kharmas were different to Simon's. Just before I got mine, the Ceramique driver was replaced with a Kevlar based one from one of Kharma's other speakers. It was designed or said to be compatible with the 3.2fe's but I'm now convinced that the Kevlar driver somehow upset the balance of the speaker giving it a far more lean and pitched up tone than before.
Simon can elaborate on this more but I believe his original Ceramique drivers were replaced with Ceramique drivers that come from the more expensive Exquiste range of speakers from Kharma. Certainly it retains the same tone as the original drivers but far more weight to the sound.

[Seán]

That is a very enjoyable read Dave, thank you.

[Ivor]

Very interesting!

[block]

Nice read, always like hearing how the sound is affected when different parts of the chain is swapped out.

[Diapason]

It was a very enjoyable night indeed, although it will take weeks for the room to cool down from the combination of valves and hot air being spoken! As always, time went by far too quickly and we didn't get to listen to half the stuff we might have wanted to, but I think there were some advantages to keeping things simple and not swapping out multiple pieces of kit. I had a few things I wanted to get a handle on specifically, and Tony bringing his Jadis out really helped in that regard, but all that aside it's great to get some external perspective from time to time. Especially when I spend a lot of time thinking that everything at home sounds s**t...!

First things first, I was interested in hearing DaveF's thoughts on my Kharmas compared to his Kharmas since he had such a difficult time with his pair, and I have to be honest, things didn't go the way I was expecting. As Dave has said, the speakers in question are actually very different to each other, so maybe we shouldn't be too surprised. As time goes on, it seems clear that the uprated ceramic drivers in my pair have had an entirely positive effect, whereas the drivers that went into Dave's pair upset the balance somehow. However, I still wasn't expecting my system to pass the patented "DaveF woodwind resonance test", as that seemed like a treble issue and the tweeters on both sets of speakers are identical. All very interesting.

Of further interest was the Jadis comparison. While Dave is right that the Graafs were better in some ways, I think I'd have to admit that the Jadis was a more attractive sound all-round to my ears. Why is this? Well, it could be that it's just better plain and simple(!), it could be a question of synergy, it could be because it has a preamp included which I don't have, or it could be because my amps aren't currently performing at their best. I had thought that the last revalving and rebiasing robbed them of some warmth and weight, but then I wondered if I imagined that. In fairness, I've always loved the Jadis sound, so maybe it really is just more to my taste. Anyway, first port of call here will be to get the biasing on the Graafs checked, as that's (reasonably) straightforward, and I'll report back in due course.

All of this has me wondering again whether I really need new speakers at all. I had pretty much decided that I needed a speaker change, just because I fancy a change, but now I'm wondering if I'd regret it. Sounds like Dave has a few questions of his own to deal with on the back of the visit now too.

Anyway, thanks to both Tony and Dave for coming out to visit the nerd-cave. We'll do it again.

[DaveF]

I think we would have needed a lot more time with our own familiar recordings to decide between the Graafs and Jadis. I was split 50/50 between the two. If I had to choose quickly I might lean towards the Graafs but only based on what music I heard last night. The slightly sharper attack and separation would work for me. Whether that would become tiring after a long session I've no idea. That said, the Jadis had that wonderful lush sound that really suited the big orchestral stuff.

The Quad 57's sounded quite a bit different from the 989's. Plus and minus points here. I'd really need to hear 57's on the Rupert stands to make a proper judgement.

[Diapason]

Yeah, I really need to get those Quads on stands. Fran kindly offered a set of his stands a while ago but I never took him up on the offer, mainly because I never got out to his place to pick them up. Maybe I should ask him really nicely if they're still available...! ;)

Actually, one small point on the above, we listened to the Quads with the Graafs last night, not the Jadis. I'm not sure if that makes any difference in your assessment, but I just wanted to point it out. I also need to hear your Jadis in my place, I think. That might take some more arranging, but it's an achievable goal if we can rope in a weightlifter from somewhere.

[DaveF]

I also need to hear your Jadis in my place, I think. That might take some more arranging, but it's an achievable goal if we can rope in a weightlifter from somewhere.

I'm all up for that if anyone's interested. I'm kinda terrified though of hearing your Kharmas on the end of my Jadis cos I have a feeling it may sound sublime indeed. But I've been so wrong before about these things so....

[Rocker]

Sounds like a great evening was had by all.